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Old 06-04-2007, 10:23 PM   #7
Bad Brad
 
Default Re: pretty deep

Dave Hinz wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:31:40 GMT, Bad Brad <pioneer1@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>>They just finished drilling my well (and my wallet) and
>>I was wondering if anyone makes a solar well pump that can

>
> r draw water from 420'deep?
>
> Well, what voltage and current does your wellpump need? That will give
> you your requirements. First guess is that you'll need an awfully large
> solar system to do it.
>

Thats what i'm thinking. It was suggested to me to use a
generator with a regular AC pump, and a large water tank.
that way i would only have to run the generator/pump once
a day. But i had hoped maybe solar pumps had advanced enough
to draw from that depth with out being to much of a solar load.

>
>>Any answers smart or dumb appreciated

>
>
> How much are they charging these days? I paid $17.00 / foot back about
> 8 years ago.
>

$28.00 /foot + extras in northern nevada. 670 ft=empty wallet.
670'=70 GPM 420'=30 GPM

>

Dave Hinz
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:23 PM   #8
Bad Brad
 
Default Re: pretty deep

wmbjk wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:31:40 GMT, Bad Brad <pioneer1@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>
>>They just finished drilling my well (and my wallet) and
>>I was wondering if anyone makes a solar well pump that can
>>draw water from 420'deep?
>>
>>Any answers smart or dumb appreciated
>>
>>brad

>
>
> I believe the Grundfos SQ Flex series could handle it. A bit beyond
> the specs, but I think I've heard of them working to 500. There's the
> Dankoff ETA as well. Both are very pricey though. If you don't need a
> lot of water you could suffer the inefficiency of a standard AC
> submersible (that's what we did), assuming your power system is up to
> it. A 3/4 hp 5 gpm would be iffy, and only if going into storage. A 1
> hp 5 could deliver about 4 gpm and 40 psi from 420 ft pumping level.
> For more accurate info, post your well depth, static depth, daily
> needs, how you intend to handle pressure, and what if anything you
> have for solar power already.
>
> Wayne

Well depth is 670 static is 420. Actually i've never measured what
i use a day (still on city water here at my old place)I do have a
large diesel generator (for backup). I was told the best bet would
be conventional AC pump, large water tank, run once a day. I can do
that but i had hoped pumps had come further than they have when i last
checked (and they have) but not quite where i need them to be as far
as my situation. But thanks for the heads up on the Grundfos and
the Dankoffs, if the power consumption is'nt too bad maybe one of
those might work. I was just hoping to go solar/wind all the way.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:23 PM   #9
Anthony Matonak
 
Default Re: pretty deep

Bad Brad wrote:
....
> Well depth is 670 static is 420. Actually i've never measured what
> i use a day (still on city water here at my old place)I do have a
> large diesel generator (for backup). I was told the best bet would
> be conventional AC pump, large water tank, run once a day. I can do
> that but i had hoped pumps had come further than they have when i last
> checked (and they have) but not quite where i need them to be as far
> as my situation. But thanks for the heads up on the Grundfos and
> the Dankoffs, if the power consumption is'nt too bad maybe one of
> those might work. I was just hoping to go solar/wind all the way.


You could look at it as the reverse of a water powered generator.
How much power you can generate from falling water depends on how
much water per time (flow) and how far is falls (head).

The reverse is also true. It takes as much energy to lift the water
as that water releases when falling. So, if you need 300 gallons a
day then it should take the same amount of energy no matter how fast
that 300 gallons is being pumped. You could pump it at a very slow
rate with a smaller horsepower pump and take all day to do it or you
could pump it at a very high rate for only a few minutes with a
very large horsepower pump.

How much energy would you need? This is where numbers come in.
Let's say 300 gallons, pumped as long as you've daylight (figure
4 sun-hours) up 430 feet into an unpressurized tank. That works
out to (300/4/60) 1.25 gallons per minute. A gallon weighs some
8.34 pounds so that's (1.25*8.34) 10.425 pounds per minute.
This needs to be lifted 430 feet so that would be (10.425*430)
4482.75 foot-pounds/minute. My little pocket ref says 1 horsepower
is the same as 33000 foot-pounds/minute and 745.7 watts. This
means you need (at least) (4483/33000) .136 HP motor or some
102 watts. Pumps and motors aren't terribly efficient though so
it's likely you would need to double or triple that.

Anthony

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Old 06-04-2007, 10:28 PM   #10
Sylvan Butler
 
Default Re: pretty deep

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:19:03 GMT, Anthony Matonak <res04ijs@gte.net> wrote:
> The reverse is also true. It takes as much energy to lift the water
> as that water releases when falling. So, if you need 300 gallons a
> day then it should take the same amount of energy no matter how fast
> that 300 gallons is being pumped. You could pump it at a very slow
> rate with a smaller horsepower pump and take all day to do it or you
> could pump it at a very high rate for only a few minutes with a
> very large horsepower pump.


Of course, it isn't that simple. Your calculations sound like college
undergrad problems where they assume an artificial world in order to
simply the equations.

The recovery rate of the well is also important. Your well may only
provide 1 gallon per minute, so it would be foolish to buy a huge pump
that would have to start and stop when a slow pump could work steadily
the way a pump "prefers."

The elevation lift or fall to which you refer is called "head" and the
head the pump sees does determine the energy required to pump the water.
But elevation is only part of the effective head.

The friction of water moving in the pipe adds to the head seen by the
pump. Pumping slowly means less friction, which means less head, which
means less energy.

If you pump into a pressure tank you need to add to the effective head,
the pressure when the pump starts and the change in pressure while the
pump runs (about 0.5psi = 1 foot, so a pressure tank operating 40psi to
60psi is roughly the same as adding 80feet to 120feet of elevation).

Instead of a pressure tank, pump into an open (atmospheric pressure)
storage tank and avoid the added head costs of pressure. Pump at a slow
rate, perhaps solar powered pumping only during the day, and avoid
friction losses. Solar powered during daylight only will also avoid
battery charge/discharge losses. A direct array -> D.C. pump eliminates
inverter losses. And in that situation a current boosting pump
controller will make for even more efficient solar pumping by starting
the pump earlier in the day and keeping it running later.

Then a small, cheap to buy and cheap to run pressure pump can provide
household water pressure pumping from the storage tank.

sdb
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